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NEW UPOWER 20KW Pic...
 
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NEW UPOWER 20KW Pictures

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(@jon-snow)
Active Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just Got them last night in mexico, anyone on the forum know anything has changed on this model it has a 60Amp breaker on charging input ...

I also noticed they have a metal panel for protection which i have never seen anywhere else.... 

Checked if there is anything rattling from transportation, but did not hear anything from shaking, do you recommend me to open them up for inspection?

<a href="/monthly_2023_01/649194271_WhatsAppImage2023-01-01at4_29.18AM(1).jpeg.54adfb53a58e6e8c19d400d71940fade.jpeg" class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image" ><img data-fileid="2031" src="//forums.genetrysolar.com/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" data-src="/monthly_2023_01/1066312659_WhatsAppImage2023-01-01at4_29.18AM(1).thumb.jpeg.dd3d974559bf6f0b6c91dc6db2b15ba2.jpeg" data-ratio="75" width="1000" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" alt="WhatsApp Image 2023-01-01 at 4.29.18 AM (1).jpeg">

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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2869
 
Posted by: @jon-snow
do you recommend me to open them up for inspection?

Only if you're very familiar with electricity and safety principles, as well as knowing what to look for.

I'd rather the inverter blow up due to shipping damage, than for it to blow you up.......one of the 2 items in question are slightly more replaceable than the other 🤯🤪


   
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(@dickson)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1043
 

Checked if there is anything rattling from transportation, but did not hear anything from shaking, do you recommend me to open them up for inspection?

BLOW it up in less than  10 days after delivery and  paypal  will give full refund   no matter what Jack say .    


   
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(@notmario)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 311
 

Has anyone here tested these new separate-box units? Any prayer this might get 10KW?

I really love PJ's cases and modular arrangement. If only they'd work out their circuitry! But i know that wont happen because they probably don't have anyone who understands it and they keep copying the same design. Just a little innovation, guys...


   
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(@jon-snow)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Thanks for recommendations guys, will hook up oscilloscope and do a load testing to see how much it pulls on both legs! stay tuned...

I want to use the charging feature, at least to have that option... I heard about the charging problems with these units where the internal relay might still be active while the inverter is turning on and I am planning to setup a relay which will deactivate the charging before the UPS charging finishes charging to avoid that problem... do you think thats a viable option?


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2869
 
Posted by: @jon-snow
I heard about the charging problems with these units where the internal relay might still be active while the inverter is turning on and I am planning to setup a relay which will deactivate the charging before the UPS charging finishes charging to avoid that problem... do you think thats a viable option?

Anyone's guess--smoke will tell.  If the firmware doesn't know how to walk properly, it's going to stumble regardless of a crutch.

also worth noting that the AC input is 120v only, limiting your max power.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 247
 

That is a nice idea splitting them up.  Good for better cooling management and a workaround for shipping issues. 


   
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(@jon-snow)
Active Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Confirmed that it works at 4600 Watts with a mix of pump, Air Conditioner and various motors and heater loads... almost ran out of big things to check with... First Photo is waveform at 4600 Watts, the last photo is waveform at 150 Watts....

Not sure if i want to push it more as i ran on one L1 only... Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform? 

<a class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image" data-fileext="png" data-fileid="2063" href="/monthly_2023_01/974085669_ScreenShot2023-01-06at2_39_23AM.png.8d65fc5f775a06923085d4175618aada.png" rel=""><img alt="Screen Shot 2023-01-06 at 2.39.23 AM.png" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="2063" data-ratio="61.7" style="height:auto;" width="1000" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g308908/monthly_2023_01/562552879_ScreenShot2023-01-06at2_39_23AM.thumb.png.fc90b0fcf77e4104da6323e144514b89.png" src="/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2869
 
Posted by: @jon-snow
Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform?

What you're seeing is sine wave saturation due to lack of headroom.

PJ likes to use a 36v -> 230v transformer spec.  If you're running 240v output, that means the input voltage has to be (230 / 36 = 6.38; 240 / 6.38) = 37.59vAC bare minimum * square root of 2 (1.414) = 53.11vDC absolute bare minimum DC input for a pure sine wave.

Under load, transformer losses will result in the transformer input voltage needing to go higher yet to maintain the 240v output.  And under load, your battery voltage will sag.

 

The only real way to determine if the inverter "can handle" a load is to see if it either (a) blows up or (b) overheats at said load after half an hour of continuous run.


   
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(@dickson)
Noble Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1043
 

Not sure if i want to push it more as i ran on one L1 only... Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform? 

My  ASL9.0  never get 40 amps .     You are  running at the max on L1 .     Your 20000 watt is the best  from Powerjack  I seen so far .   


   
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(@notmario)
Reputable Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 311
 

That sine wave is... truncated... but still identifiable compared to the square wave you tend to see when you max out the PowerJacks, so you might be able to push it a fair bit more, particularly if you add L2 to the equation. You might be able to pull off 10K, though it might not look very pretty.

You have a 'scope, so i'm going to assume you're technically equipped to handle a failure if it happens. I'd go for it. 🙂

Not 100% sure about your listening, but i know my "12K" U-Power claims 3KW continuous per leg. So if yours says 5KW continuous per leg, it would be cool that it might actually pull off it's small-print-advertised spec. (I'm not talking about the box, i'm talking about the sales listing description)


   
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(@dickson)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1043
 

Not 100% sure about your listening, but i know my "12K" U-Power claims 3KW continuous per leg. So if yours says 5KW continuous per leg, it would be cool that it might actually pull off it's small-print-advertised spec. (I'm not talking about the box, i'm talking about the sales listing description)

I  think that the UPOWER  inverter is a better  design than the   Powerjack inverter  .      I test  for max load with a temperature  gun  and  shut  the inverter down at 165 degree F .  and   my max load is 6200  watts  for the ASL9.0  transformer .        The new 20000 watts UPOWER  is equql to the  GS 6kw  from his load test .                


   
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(@notmario)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 311
 

Pretty sure it's just a label. All the typical uncertainties apply.
Some people get lucky. I got a 12K that seems to push 6K well enough that my laundry works. (~6K for up to around 15Min). Fan is similar in power to the ones on my GS.

I would not consider it equivalent to a GS6. I do not have a 'scope, sadly, but i'm pretty sure the GS would have a nice clean sine wave at that load. His, while usable, is far from perfect - and would likely be worse as the load is pushed harder.


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2869
 
7 hours ago, NotMario said:

I do not have a 'scope, sadly, but i'm pretty sure the GS would have a nice clean sine wave at that load.

The GS inverter has an on-board 'scope on it 😉.  Got ya covered...

It comes down to headroom, battery voltage and transformer losses as to whether a pure sine can be maintained at full load.


   
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(@notmario)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 311
 
2 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

The GS inverter has an on-board 'scope on it 😉.  Got ya covered...

It comes down to headroom, battery voltage and transformer losses as to whether a pure sine can be maintained at full load.

The skeptic in me cringes at the thought of trusting the on-board scope. He says "Lies! All lies!"
But yes, the diagnostic scope screen shows a pretty clean wave through the entire load range. "Perfect... too perfect... ..."


   
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