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New 6K 12V version battery connections

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(@aquaticslive)
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I am curious what the battery terminals are like on the new 6k 12V version.  I noticed that there is an extra $100 added to the price so makes me wonder if that covers adding extra battery terminals.  I know that with my Power Jack It needs both sets of terminals or the terminals get very hot when it pulling 300 Amps so wondering if there are some differences between the 24V and 12V inverters battery connections. 


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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Remember, we're in a very inflationary period right now...so the money is losing value.  No matter what we do, the "prices" keep going up simply because the units of money are worth less and less.  Cheers, proud to be an American 😉.

We are not using PJ terminals anymore.  GS spec terminals are proper solid copper battery terminals with an M8 stud...hopefully they'll be sufficient for 12v usage.

EDIT: I suspect the PJ terminals are made out of plain steel, which has a very high resistance when compared to copper or aluminum.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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29 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

I suspect the PJ terminals are made out of plain steel

I just tested the one out on my PJ filed some off and they are aluminum so copper should ones would work 39% better.  Is there enough room for me to add a second set, then just run the wires down to the heat sinks?  I am thinking M8 copper would be good for about 250Amps. 

38 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Remember, we're in a very inflationary period right now...so the money is losing value.

Sorry didn't mean to say I am worried about the price, just noticed that there was an extra 100 added to the 12V one versus the 24V so wondered is that covered extra hardware or something else.


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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6 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said:

Sorry didn't mean to say I am worried about the price, just noticed that there was an extra 100 added to the 12V one versus the 24V so wondered is that covered extra hardware or something else.

Ah...now I understand...that's because we have to buy 12v fans for the 12v inverter.  They aren't from our regular supplier, and cost considerably more.  (We just don't have enough volume to convince our fan supplier to make 12v fans for us too...)

 

6 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said:

I just tested the one out on my PJ filed some off and they are aluminum so copper should ones would work 39% better.  Is there enough room for me to add a second set, then just run the wires down to the heat sinks?  I am thinking M8 copper would be good for about 250Amps. 

We'll have to test and see. 

There is not room to add a second set of terminals on the front of the inverter, as their chassis face is 40x40mm in size (and the Sync terminals are between the Pos and Neg battery lines).  And as the next run of inverters will have FET overcurrent protection built-in, you wouldn't be able to adjust the negative busbar without messing up the max amperage calibration.

I would be surprised if the heavy copper busbars and terminals are inadequate--because remember, ALL of this power goes through a very thin layer of copper on the PCBs, not to mention 6 little tiny TO-220 pins...which comprise far less area than the busbar.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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22 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

We'll have to test and see. 

Yeah give it a try easy to see the limits if they get warm you will know.  Sounds like a fun one to do.  My rough guess would be between 200 - 250 Amps.  They do make the metal bar style ones, like the Fastronix one has a 3/8 stud with a 3/4" bar that makes contact with the terminal lugs.

 

38 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

12v fans

Oh yeah I forgot about those.


   
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(@sean-genetry-solar)
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13 hours ago, AquaticsLive said:

I am curious what the battery terminals are like on the new 6k 12V version.  I noticed that there is an extra $100 added to the price so makes me wonder if that covers adding extra battery terminals.  I know that with my Power Jack It needs both sets of terminals or the terminals get very hot when it pulling 300 Amps so wondering if there are some differences between the 24V and 12V inverters battery connections. 

Mainly the fans. We only have 24 to 48 volt fans here. The extra 100 goes to purchasing 2 pwm high speed 250 cfm fans. Our choice of fan is usually not on Amazon for free shipping. I paid 100 and some change the last time I ordered a couple of these fans.


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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17 hours ago, AquaticsLive said:

Yeah give it a try easy to see the limits if they get warm you will know.  Sounds like a fun one to do.  My rough guess would be between 200 - 250 Amps.  They do make the metal bar style ones, like the Fastronix one has a 3/8 stud with a 3/4" bar that makes contact with the terminal lugs.

So the battery terminals have a flat copper plate with an M8 stud in it for securing the input power lugs.  The flat copper plate is 25 wide by 4mm thick...I don't think the power terminal will be the limitation.  The busbars are significantly thinner (as they're needed for current sense), and of course, the little TO-220 pins on those FETs have to carry ALL of the current in the end.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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Posted by: @sid-genetry-solar
So the battery terminals have a flat copper plate with an M8 stud

Do you have the spec sheet or picture of the copper ones?  The ones on the website picture of 6k look like the cheaper nickle brass studs rated for much lower current.  I see the 12K drawing has different studs are those the same on the new 6K?


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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Posted by: @sean-genetry-solar
The extra 100 goes to purchasing 2 pwm high speed 250 cfm fans

I normally use the Delta AFB1212GHE they are much cheaper than the higher end server ones and seem to be decent quality.  I keep a few spares I use them to keep the air circulating in my ambulance.  They are only 240 CFM so may not hit your numbers but close.  Maybe an option if your hunting.


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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12 hours ago, AquaticsLive said:

Do you have the spec sheet or picture of the copper ones?  The ones on the website picture of 6k look like the cheaper nickle brass studs rated for much lower current.  I see the 12K drawing has different studs are those the same on the new 6K?

Website has not been updated, the pictures there are still of the PJ terminals.

12kw uses a much heavier terminal than the new 6kw, but the 6kw is still utilizing a similar design.

Here's a photo of the new 6kw terminals:

<img class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="1520" data-ratio="57.35" width="483" alt="image.png.0abe483b8a70a9dc118483fe7b318b18.png" data-src="/monthly_2022_07/image.png.0abe483b8a70a9dc118483fe7b318b18.png" src="/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

Keep in mind, as I've stressed several times above, these terminals are the least of my concerns with high amperage usecases--everything after these terminals is thinner and smaller than the terminals.

 

11 hours ago, AquaticsLive said:

I normally use the Delta AFB1212GHE they are much cheaper than the higher end server ones and seem to be decent quality.  I keep a few spares I use them to keep the air circulating in my ambulance.  They are only 240 CFM so may not hit your numbers but close.  Maybe an option if your hunting.

That's about what we'd be looking for.  Our spec fans are rated 252 CFM, but anything >200CFM should be decently equivalent.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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Posted by: @sid-genetry-solar
Here's a photo of the new 6kw terminals:

Awesome thanks man yeah those will work much better.  Its more of a temperature safety thing for me if just using just a single PJ with a 4/0 wire the stud gets super hot so not good for the wire insulation over time it starts getting crispy.  I am guessing it can handle it fine I just didn't like my heat shrink all getting melted so swapped to two thinner 2/0 cables using both studs and it doesn't get hot anymore. 


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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I just put my order in, may be the only 12V unit order.  Also got the RS485 option cool you added that to the order page glad I waited a bit.  Well now I can do any side things you want to try out with generator too I will finally have the new stuff.  


   
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(@sean-genetry-solar)
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Yep got the order. Thank you. Will be ordering the 12v fans as soon as the pre orders close.


   
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(@aquaticslive)
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Reviving this one since Sean called me, checking with Sid if you have the fans for my 12V unit.  If max voltage is a worry, could put a 12V regulator inline with the power wires of the fan.  Something like the LT1084CT-12 could use one inline with each fan, could put two in parallel with each if you want to add redundancy to it that would be my suggestion.  Would be enough for the fans.  The Delta Fans I use have never had any issues, so not worried there though I can always swap them out and add regulators later if they do burn out. 


   
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(@sid-genetry-solar)
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If you haven't had any issues with the Delta fans, that's great...I know I had three 48v Delta fans fail within a few months of each other (two of them on the same day in fact) after about 6 months of use.  Rated 53v max, and got 56.5v all day long.

I've done a bit of looking for 12v fan options...found several that look good, only to find that either they won't go all the way down to 0% throttle via PWM--or I can't confirm that they will from what specs I can find.  Bit disappointed honestly.  But I do need to find something.


   
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